Northern-based saxophonist Rob Cope pursued each classical research (on the Royal Northern Faculty of Music from 2006 to 2010), after which jazz research (on the Royal Academy of Music from 2010 to 2012). His newest album Gemini (releasing 12 Jan on Ubuntu Data) demonstrates how these experiences have enabled him to domesticate a novel voice as an instrumentalist and as a composer. It options fellow saxophonist Andy Scott with Liam Noble (piano) and Paul Clarvis (drums). Interview with Charlie Rees

LondonJazz Information: Inform us a bit about why you selected to report with this ensemble…

Rob Cope: I met Andy Scott in school once I was about ten and studied with him proper via my time on the Royal Northern Faculty of Music (in addition to with Rob Buckland). I wished to do an album with him not solely as a result of he was such an enormous inspiration to me, but in addition as a result of I believe he and I play written music in a really comparable type. I had composed these duets and I wished them to sound cohesive. They’re actually exhausting, so I wanted a sax participant who’s kind of like I’m: somebody who may each learn and improvise comfortably.

As for Paul Clarvis and Liam Noble, I had a long-standing love of their album collectively Starry Starry Night time (2008). So I went to see them play reside on the North London Tavern about twelve years in the past, and I observed the way in which they have been on stage collectively appeared so relaxed. They might chat via songs to play and you can really feel the depth of their relationship. It was someway casual however nonetheless world-class. Watching that helped me to grasp you can play troublesome music to the very best degree with out wrapping it in a pretentious bubble. With that in thoughts, I wished them to have loads of license to play how they normally would collectively. The one time in the entire recording the place I felt I needed to give any particular instruction, Paul stated no anyway. I loved it very a lot that he was so certain he was already taking part in the tune one of the simplest ways it could possibly be! 

LJN: Was it that intent to convey the Rob Cope-Andy Scott duo and the Liam Noble-Paul Clarvis duo collectively into one ensemble that led you to report with out a bass instrument?

Not but a subscriber of our Wednesday Breakfast Headlines?
Be part of the mailing record for a weekly roundup of Jazz Information.

RC: A great deal of folks, particularly bass gamers, requested me why I didn’t use bass… it’s simply my choice (I didn’t have bass on my first album). For this one, I attempted exhausting to not think about what folks say I ought to be doing, as an alternative to do it the way in which I envisaged it. The items are written and structured in a means that by no means follows any normal songbook kind – apart from “Laika” which is a blues – and since they’re not closely notated, it meant that Liam may dictate all of the concord himself with out having to tell anybody of what he was doing. Additionally, the piano can play so low – he had eight octaves to work with – so recording with out a bass by no means fearful me.

LJN: It sounds such as you felt having a bass would intervene with their creativity.

RC: Fully! For instance, if Paul occurred to be a bass participant, then it could be a drum-less album. The lineup is solely primarily based on the personnel. Once I was learning on the Royal Academy of Music, Pete Churchill would inform us to write down for the participant fairly than the instrument. I totally agree that works.

LJN: Had you labored with Liam or Paul earlier than this recording?

RC: We’d by no means performed collectively earlier than, although I took some classes with Liam whereas I used to be on the Academy. Once I scored all of the compositions out, I despatched them to him and Paul. So far as I do know, Paul doesn’t have a pc, so I needed to print all of the elements out and publish them to him! I informed them that the elements have been particularly for them, not only a pianist and a drummer. It kind of felt like an audition, they wished to see what they have been entering into.

LJN: Your music combines components of classical saxophone repertoire and approach with jazz and improvisation… how did you incorporate that into this mission?

RC: The notated sections are written to be about as troublesome as I can play, and I wished the identical for Andy. I’ve thought lots about how my coaching as a classical saxophonist has given me a whole lot of freedom to play notation like that. I wished to create one thing reflective of how I’ve been taught, so you’ve these advanced sections of composed music, however as a result of Paul and Liam are improvising, it doesn’t sound like a style conflict. It’s all finally jazz, you simply hear the affect of up to date classical saxophone repertoire alongside the way in which.

LJN: Are you able to define the principle variations between being a jazz saxophonist and a classical saxophonist… ought to they be thought-about separate in any respect?

RC: It’s an awesome query. I suppose totally different sax gamers would have their very own views. Take a look at somebody like Branford Marsalis: He strikes between each genres, however it nonetheless appears like a transfer from one to the opposite. Trying extra broadly, it relies on which nation’s music you’re taking part in: If you happen to’re taking part in the “Phil Woods Sonata”, which is American modern saxophone repertoire, there’s improvisation within the center; it’s nonetheless closely notated, however it’s much less of a shift from standard jazz. Whereas, if you happen to’re within the French college of classical saxophone, that you must present it a special sort of respect and perceive the context of what you’re doing; there does really feel like extra of a separation. Not that they need to be mutually unique, every style has a lot to show the opposite. I wrote within the liner notes about how I discovered to make use of multiphonics from taking part in Barry Cockcroft’s nice piece for solo soprano sax, “Ku Ku”.

LJN: Would you say you utilize classical sax repertoire as a studying useful resource to counterpoint your taking part in in an improvised setting?

RC: Precisely. I’m at first a jazz saxophone participant. It jogs my memory of the Seinfeld episode the place George Costanza is out of a job and brainstorming concepts for what to do: He suggests turning into a sports activities commentator as a result of he likes sports activities, however the others level out to him that you simply sort of must have been an ex-player for that! Sitting down to write down this album was a bit like that. I requested myself what was I good at, what have I discovered, what can I write that might be true to myself. Going via this self-reflection helped me to seek out my voice as an artist.

LJN: What was it wish to go from a teacher-student relationship with Andy Scott to being colleagues and bandmates?

RC: The transition started once I was in my fourth 12 months on the RNCM, however it was once I got here to London that our relationship actually began to blossom. I used to be studying stuff from Stan Sulzmann and Martin Speake, issues that Andy was not uncovered to. He booked me to play in his Group S ensemble, which was 9 saxophones plus rhythm part. We began doing a little gigs collectively and I felt very fortunate that he trusted me to play his music. Doing that with him gave me the possibility to point out issues that hadn’t come from him or his friends, and sharing information helped to alter the dynamic of our relationship. As a result of I’d been a part of Group S and we’d recorded an album – one among my tunes is on the most recent of these CDs – it meant that after we got here to do Gemini, every part felt fully regular… till I reminded Andy how a lot he’d impressed me as a trainer. He was a bit embarrassed. It was fairly jarring in a humorous means.

LJN: With reference to academics who impressed you, you wrote in your liner notes that the ultimate observe of Gemini (“Generations”) is devoted to Jim Muirhead, a longtime veteran of the Hallé Orchestra and your main sax trainer whereas at Chetham’s Faculty of Music (and later my trainer there!). Inform our readers about him…

RC: Chet’s was a boarding college and Jim was the right father determine each pupil wanted there. He was superb at shielding you from pressures like BBC Younger Musician and inner concerto competitions, by no means even bringing them up. As an alternative, he would simply allow you to develop at your personal tempo and be a child, mentioning alternatives solely on the proper time. I believe the truth that I’m taking part in now and nonetheless wanting to be taught and get higher is all due to him. After all, that informs the way in which I train: I discovered from him to by no means push my college students so exhausting that they burn out, however to not push so little that they don’t get higher. I need to take the large image with them that he at all times took with me.

LJN: Along with making albums and instructing, you cohost the Jazz Podcast with Tara Minton. Your friends embody Sonny Rollins, John Scofield, Bob Mintzer and lots of others. What experiences have you ever gained from these interviews?

RC: We’ve been going for seven years and I’ve performed about 250 reveals in that point, first with Dan Farrant and now with Tara. It was a little bit of enjoyable for some time, after which Sonny Rollins agreed to come back on the present and our profile sort of exploded. Now we don’t must ask anyone to come back on, I simply look ahead to them to come back to us. Typically you may join the dots and see how sure artists see different artists on the present and turn into : Kyle Eastwood approaching led to Jamie Cullum who led to Gordon Goodwin, etcetera. It’s been a privilege to speak with so many wonderful musicians, and it’s been wonderful to be taught what number of musicians are up for a chat. Each episode is archived within the British Library, so these interviews will outlive me!

LJN: How did the British Library get entangled?

RC: They emailed us out of the blue round after we revealed our one hundred and fiftieth present. They requested if they might add every episode of the present we made to a bit they’ve known as An Oral Historical past of Jazz, an incredible provide which after all we agreed to. Now members of the Library can entry the archive digitally at any level indefinitely. If sooner or later, for no matter cause, we stopped paying for the internet hosting, tons of of episodes would vanish in a single day. However due to the library backing it up, the chance of the present dying a digital demise has been considerably lessened.

LJN: Apart from the podcast, what else are you concerned with in 2024?

RC: We’re launching Gemini at Vortex on 25 January, which would be the first time we play collectively reside. We’ll play materials from the album however open it out a bit so we are able to have longer improvisations. I’d ask Liam and Paul if they’ve some tunes they’d wish to play, however I’m attempting to not plan far more than that. There’s already a lot writing. And with nice musicians like them, the perfect factor to do is simply to go away them to it. We’ve received just a few different gigs unfold all year long on the Lescar (Sheffield) and the Cambridge Jazz Competition. I’m additionally recording with my spouse Claire Cope’s eleven-piece ensemble that includes Ant Legislation, Brigitte Beraha, Freddie Gavita, Matt Carmichael and others. There are just a few different gigs with my quartet which can be nonetheless pending so I most likely shouldn’t point out them but, however control my web site for any bulletins.

LINKS: Rob Cope’s web site
Preorder Rob Cope’s Gemini
Hearken to The Jazz Podcast hosted by Rob Cope & Tara Minton